When people travel and emigrate, their practices and beliefs travel and emigrate, too. Included is female genital mutilation/cutting (FGM/C). Among many communities and in many cultures, women aren’t entitled to make their own decisions about what happens to their bodies. This is a “fundamental violation of basic human rights.” Sadly, the fact is genital mutilation happens daily on a global basis, and even in our own backyards. How can we go about raising awareness and stopping this world-wide scourge in its tracks?

Join the Dudes n Beer podcast as we discuss what should be one of the hot button issues of the Century, the global ceasing of female genital mutilation, with special guest Natasha R Johnson of Globalizing Gender.

The Dudes n Beer podcast is a proud member of the HC Universal Network family of podcasts. Visit our LISTEN LIVE page and join the conversation.

SHOW NOTES: (click time code to move embedded player timestamp)

HOST 00:28

well Hello everybody and welcome to Episode 264 of the dudes and beer podcast now

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ization all of it they have great one on one consultation, use the code dudes 20 on your

way out the door and you will save 20% of your entire purchase. Our guests had night. The amazing Natasha art Johnson of globalizing gender. This is a really hot button issue, folks. I was talking with somebody earlier today about it. They’re like, Wow, that is a turn on a

dime for topics. And I was like, yeah, we talk about some hard conversations on dudes

and beer. That is, the idea is to have polarizing conversations to have conversations that

we do not often talk about in society. And tonight, we will be talking about the global

travesty happening in your backyard. And that is the horrible, horrible human rights

violation known as female genital mutilation. Natasha Johnson works with globalizing

gender to get the message out there about it to really talk about what it is and educate

people about it. So we’ll be talking to her in just a moment. Before that we do have a

great clip from our good friend Michael turbo five by five news. We’ve gotten permission

to start playing some of his reports. We will soon be having him on to have an update on

the Las Vegas shooting the Mandalay Bay massacre. with Steven paddock apparently

there was a recent report from Daily Mail that talks about some possible text messages

that were sent to a possible rendezvous sexually. So here’s a great report from Mike turbo

on that right now, folks.

       02:43

Hi, Mike Turner with five by five news and we hear you loud and clear. In a recent news

story by Daily Mail TV, a claim was made that a 29 year old woman who does not wish to

be named but use the name Kate for their story revealed to them exclusively that she had

been a mistress of Steve pedic for several years and that she had been texting with Patrick up until about two days before the Las Vegas massacre, the largest mass shooting

in United States history. I reached out to Eric Patrick, the brother of the shooter, who has

been speaking with me exclusively, and showed him the text to see if they look like

something that his brother Steve would have even said. Eric stated it can’t say yes, I can’t

say no, it’s obviously it was pretty brain felt at the end. Under normal conditions, I’d say No

way. Eric also said the cadence just doesn’t even seem like Steve and I haven’t seen any

absolute proof that it’s Steve’s phone doing the texting or anything. I contacted Daily Mail TV to see if we could attempt to verify the messages as well, and we are waiting for their

response. What follows are the text messages claimed by Daily Mail TV to be between Kate and Steve paddock, just two days before the shooting at the route 91 concert held

across the street from Mandalay Bay, where Patrick was a guest. The text messages you

see here are between Steven paddock and a person who the Daily Mail called Kate. That’s

probably not a real name, but she apparently is a 29 year old person who had a

relationship with Steven paddock. She said she was his mistress for a few years before the

massacre on October 1 2017. He started sending her some disturbing messages. That’s

what you see here on this video. He last contacted her in the morning hours of September 29 2017. Concerned about him, Kate offered to drive to Las Vegas, but he told her not to

bother. She said that she shares a passion with panic, and that she’s always friendly, then

she probably should be and that that has gotten her into trouble several times. When she

originally met Patrick in Miami, she stated that she was at a bar with a friend and had

gotten really drunk and was buying everyone drinks. Kate described herself in panic as a

sloppy drunk and she invited him back to their hotel room where they ended up having a

threesome. She said that they met up a few more times, and that she found out that he

had a partner, but she said that he said he was planning on leaving Mary Lou danly and That she was a gold digger and was draining his money. Then in 2016, he met up with her

again, and that is when she became alarmed about his erratic behavior. She said in 2016,

they had sex again, and at that time that he tried to tie her up, she said that she started

getting nervous and she was trying to pull away because he had a blank stare in his eyes. She asked him to untie her and got no reaction. So she said she needed some water and

he grabbed a bottle of water and poured it in her face. She said she inhaled some of the

water and started coughing. She said he seemed to snap out of whatever Tracy was in an

entire. She said, looking at him, she felt like she was looking into a blank stare. And like he

had no soul. She said that he was talking about how the world was evil. And the human

race was selfish and evil, and how we felt like he didn’t fit in this world anymore. She

stated that she knew he was becoming unhinged. The days and weeks leading up to what

happened but at the time, she didn’t know or think that he was capable of doing what he

did. She said by looking back now and knowing why She knows the signs were there, and

she feels like she overlooked them. She said she knew there’s something wrong and that

maybe he was becoming manic but she never thought that he would be homicidal or

suicidal.

       HOST 06:14

Thank you so much, Mike tober. He will be coming on here in the next week or so to talk

about the updates on the route 91 massacre. Everything else that happened out there at

Mandalay Bay, Steven paddock I know that he is literally the only person that the brother Eric paddock has spoken with privately and done interviews with about Steven and the

history behind this and leading up to it so hopefully we will find out more from him. Whenever we have him on our guest tonight. The amazing Natasha R. Johnson, speaker

at TED talks for globalizing gender charity that works to help educate people around the

world and in local communities, to the travesty that is female genital mutilation. Welcome

to the show. Natasha, How are you this evening?

       GUEST 07:15

I’m good. Thank you.

 

_H             HOST 07:17

Welcome to the show. We had a minute just before we started broadcast and everything

else to kind of chat, you know, get to know each other things like that. And to kind of go

through a little bit of that, again, for the audience, just so they can familiarize themselves

with you. Tell them a little bit about yourself what it is that you do and what it is that

brought you to be involved with this amazing cause that, like we said before the show it’s

not really something that whenever you’re considering career paths in high school, junior,

that really pops to the forefront of your mind. You know that you’re going to go out and

       GUEST 07:59

tell everybody how Not in the year but

HOST 08:03

in the movement in the world with this Natasha.

       GUEST 08:08

Yeah, well first before I even answer your question, what a funky thing so thank you. I

wasn’t expecting so that’s groovy tune. Welcome in. But yeah, so in answer to your

question, I am an attorney and artist and educator and activist and a yoga teacher. And I

use all of those disciplines to do impact work to create greater opportunities to sort of

eliminate gender based violence locally and domestically. So that’s, that’s what we do and

and that’s what they’re our mission is to create a gender justice world. And we do we do

that through advocacy capacity building. education or in wellness? And so an answer to

your question specifically around female genital mutilation and cutting. And I use both of

those terms mutilation and cutting, because to be honest, in most communities where this

practice occurs, most community members don’t use either of those terms. So even in

using them, we get that the terminology has been westernized. But I use them because it

really just depends on the the nomenclature that the folks that I’m working with, and on

behalf of you, and if they identify the practices of cutting or as tradition, then that’s what I

that’s what I call it, and if they consider it mutilation, and that title is to hurt to them, then

that’s how I call it but for our conversation, I’ll just be f GMC to keep it short. That’s not

okay.

HOST 09:59

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We love our acronyms and alphabets here on the show.

_G              GUEST 10:05

So we’re gonna do a lot of them here. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, they’re a good number

of them.

       HOST 10:09

It really is, I think, a misunderstood thing and something that’s really just not understood. Natasha, even even the person that I was discussing this with earlier was like, What? What

is that? Like? You know what? Like, wow, a shocking topic, of course, and we talk a lot

about those things. We’re supposed to talk about these things in societies, folks, it’s what

betters us as human beings is to have these hard rough conversations. So yeah, you know,

cuz you got into culture for a minute, and that’s what I had to kind of explain to her. Let’s,

let’s go a little bit into where the root of some of this comes from, and how it translates

into modern society, and even into people’s neighborhoods and backyards, right here in America. Because this is not, not not just a global issue.

      GUEST 11:06

Right? Yeah, so you know, FGM fee is 1000 year old practice it dates back well before

most of us can probably even document. It’s been practiced all throughout the world. It’s

not new to the United States. But it is definitely much more prominent now. FMC has been

practiced in a host of different countries and communities. It’s not religiously based at all. Nor is it medically based it has no medical benefits, nor any religious ones under any sort

of auspices. But in a good number of communities, they will be folks who say that the

practice endures because of tradition, because of religion because of the miscibility

because it’s a way for women to move forward in particular communities. It’s practiced

differently in different communities. And at different times. But in short fmcs added the

cutting with the complete removal of the quarters and or the Libya menorah, or Libya Majoris. And that practice happens, depending on the community at some point, normally

between the ages of six months a year, six months old to anywhere between like before

marriage, which could be anywhere from 13 years old and upwards. But again, it happens

at different times. And the practices are quite different and the types are different,

depending on the community in where it happens. If we were talking to us specific in the US, if we’re talking about backyards, there are about half a million women and girls

impacted by F GMC here. And a good number of those women are mostly coming from

immigrant communities. But it’s important to note that F GMC was covered by Blue Cross Blue Shield in the US up until 1977 and way to sort of reduce women’s hysteria is a good it’s

not an it’s not an unknown practice to the US. No, no. And,

_H              HOST 13:09

and that’s just it. That’s something that we’ve talked about on the show before that not

many people realize that until like 1978, there were still eugenics laws in most states where

if you are above a certain gender or a certain IQ, you are not allowed to breed. Like, all

kinds of stuff. Like these are recent topics, folks that for some reason have just slipped

through the cracks on us.

      GUEST 13:32

I mean, in New York, which is where I’m at and I up until 1984, it wasn’t illegal to mount a

rake wasn’t illegal. Wow.

      HOST 13:41

Wow. And, you know, it’s, it’s just phenomenal that like I said, these are all such recent

practices. And like you said, this is the FOMC is done typically and frequently under the

guise of religion, tribal belief, things like that, but not really the case. And like you said, No

millions of cases in the United States like my jaw dropped when I read that the other day,

um, because my god, there’s always that fact of kind of like male rape cases where you’re

like, wow, if the numbers are that imagine how many go unreported.

      GUEST 14:21

Imagine how many cannot be women here. There are lots of folks who actually aren’t

reporting

      HOST 14:27

exactly and and how many of the cases are found by accident through maybe some sort

of medical exam, things like that. Not necessarily as somebody coming forward and trying

to break from that community and break from that literal psychological bond that you

were trying to create with somebody and and do to somebody for the rest of their life.

       GUEST 14:55

Yeah, I mean, you slip into a couple of different nuances that make the issue of GMC Really nuanced and complicated. And it is partly I think, why some folks like to feel like it’s

a little too 18, for lack of a better word, to step into, and thinking about how to grab some

agency around it and step into it and give and give folks some support. But one of those

 

reasons is because GMC is normally organized by family members and community

members. And so it gets really tricky and nuanced when the, you know, the actor, maybe

dad or grandma, you know, and so it can be a little tricky one for someone to come

forward and ask for help and to for for you to see that person as a wrongdoer. This is it

that this is if it was an issue of, you know, a parent who had committed sexual assault or

you know, some sort of date weight, you know, those issues get a little bit more nuanced

when they’re those familial in psychosocial relationships that are that create those kinds

of bonds. Absolutely. And I think one of the other issues is that you know, I think this is

often less than less than often than it needs to be, which is that it’s just about women, it’s

about women’s bodies. And folks don’t like to talk about that, particularly when most of

the folks who are doing the legislating are not women or not people with women’s bodies. And so it makes it a different issue to think about how to step in to advocate really

powerfully on behalf of those folks. And when there’s no space for that, it makes it harder

for someone to come forward, particularly when issue often gets misunderstood. And if

not highly recognized, and depending on when that person may have had may have been

impacted and may have been cut, they may not actually even know that their bodies are

modified. That’s right, right and total, as you mentioned, they may end up having to go to

a doctor for another issue or issue that actually might be a symptom of FDC that they’re

actually not even aware of, which happens really often particularly for a lot to myself. clients were just stepping into, you know, puberty or womanhood. And now they’re

recognizing that, you know, their bodies are doing things a little bit differently than maybe

their friends at school. Yeah,

HOST 17:12

yeah. Precisely. And, you know, that’s just it. That’s why I put that phrase in there a while

ago, discovered accidentally, you know, because a lot of these things do do get found out

like, what once gym class starts happening, things like that, you know, and you’re

changing in front of people and you start seeing some of the behavioral differences, that

kind of stuff. So to know that there are that many out there that are that young, like you

said, this is something that is done typically that kind of like, I guess, under the guise of

abreast and right around the same age, you know, very, very good start

GUEST 17:55

that early. Absolutely. Yeah, most definitely. workshop went You’re in Brooklyn with some

teenagers and preteens nice mix of genders in the room. And when we started talking

about how they could be helpful to you know, friends who might be experiencing GNC, a

lot of the boys suddenly asked about male circumcision. Yeah. And they asked, you know

about similarities and differences, which is a natural place to go when you’re thinking about the world that these issues and then having that conversation with them to give

them some agency around it, we started to talk about what happens with male

circumcision. And a lot of the boys suddenly realized that they may have already been

circumcised. Yeah. And they immediately raised their hand. eyes were wide as you can

possibly imagine. And they’re like, why would someone do that to me? And I said, Well,

you know, it’s a good question. I don’t know I said, but you know, it’s, I show them what a

circumcised penis looks like. And I showed them what a uncircumcised one looks like. And I said, you know, this might be a great opportunity for you to have a really powerful

conversation with your parents around showing and body autonomy. Yeah, Because that’s

what anybody wants. Yep. Yeah. And that’s really what I’ve been advocating for on behalf

of folks who experience at GNC.

HOST 19:08

And that’s what I love is the the fact that you are treating this as a human rights violation. Which it absolutely is, when when you’re talking about it in these circumstances it is it is. I

mean, it’s It’s horrifying to know that you have permanently altered that for a young lady,

you permanently change the way that their body responds for the rest of their life.

GUEST 19:37

So, yeah, I mean, the UN declared f GMC, a human rights violation in 2018. You know, the US is not a signatory to many of the UN protocols. So that doesn’t necessarily give us a

place to step into powerfully around that. And I’m sorry, in 2016 and in 2018 If we lost the

federal case, actually, in Michigan that made it constitutional to cut girls here in the United States, and it’s been deferred now to a states rights matter as opposed to a federal

issue, which essentially means that the federal government has become meat on the

issue. Yeah. And so what that means is that each state has to really sort of step in and say

what they want to happen to their women and girls citizens around this issue. And that’s

been, you know, a little bit of a Pandora’s box because each state has a very different

response to it. And so really, our work at globalizing gender is one to raise awareness

about this issue, and to raise awareness about it very responsibly. But also, to really start

to reframe this issue as a human rights issue, as you mentioned, but not as simply an

immigrant rights issue or women’s rights issue. workers rights issues. But it is a public

health issue overall, that it has a greater impact for all of us. And so that’s the other thing

that we’ve been really working hard at me around doing. And in New York specifically,

we’ve been working to create, really some pilots and test cases that if successful, will

hopefully be able to be replicated throughout different jurisdictions throughout the

country. And because up until now, our response has been pretty, pretty, pretty new. And

this will give us an opportunity to step into a much larger global community and global response around this issue.

HOST 21:41

Well, and speaking of the global response and community response exactly How are y’all

going about like I was saying before the show one of our regular guests, and you will be

added to our causes we believe in page on the dudes and beer website. By the way. This is

like this is something that We believe we need to raise awareness about we need to try

and explain to people what is actively going on in the world around us. And it’s it’s been

interesting to see our audience’s response and growing, responding, especially on Facebook whenever myself or Billy Joe Kane from radical empathy, education, Foundation, postings about human trafficking now, it actively sparks community

conversation, like immediately. Whereas before, it’s sad, man, and it’s nice to know that it

took a little time to expose them to the topic, but once they were there, and once they

heard the stories, and once they saw what he was trying to do to change things. They

welcomed the message and, you know, and to, to know that you’re out there doing this,

we want to try and welcome that message in to our community as well.

GUEST 22:55

What whatever, thank you. That’s what we’re looking for.

HOST 22:58

Yeah. And that’s what I was gonna say what can People do. And what are you doing

actively right now? Because like we’re saying this is not just an international issue going

on, this is happening in your backyard people guaranteed, much like human trafficking. This is happening in your town in your community. What are y’all doing to reach out to

local communities to, like you said, working with youth, everything like that? What are

some of the programs you’re implementing right now, to do that?

GUEST 23:34

No, this work doesn’t get done alone. It has to get done in community and in

collaboration, you know, because I think big work requires big people. So globalize

engineer, along with a host of other organizations, some local in eastern New York and

others, nationally and even globally. We work in coordination and partnership, meaning

that we share information we share tools, we share resources, we share our successes, the

officer, I break down And failures when things don’t work, and really give each other the

opportunity to really sort of have a sort of brainstorming around what what are the next steps and what’s best and what’s what’s most appropriate. And that’s really because it’s a

nuanced issue. And what happens with one community and in one area may be a really

good guide, but it may not be specific enough to have the issues of manifesting in another

community. And that may just be because of geographics or because of community. For

instance, if I were working with colleagues in Minnesota, they have a much larger Somali

and Ethiopian community in the Midwest as opposed to here, even here in New York,

which tends to have a much larger West African and South Asian community group. So

because of that some of the nuances in the ways in which we do the work will change a

little bit more specifically in answer to your question some of the things that we’re doing. So in 2018, we had the first awareness raising March here in New York City. And we walked

five miles from City Hall and invited folks from all five boroughs to raise awareness about

this issue. We had a concert, we had flyers, we had tabling, we had individuals who,

who’ve experienced this issue and survived speak and talk to others. And it was really

multi dimensional and multi disciplinary. And that’s the important piece. So we had folks

from FBI, USC is NYPD, the DEA offices, health and hospital and a host of community

based organizations that are working within the communities throughout New York City

and throughout the country that work directly with community members who are

impacted by this issue. Right after that, we then had a first hearing with City Council to

start to look at, you know, where that might be an opportunity for them to step in and get

some oversight around. This issue particularly because as you mentioned earlier, even

though the numbers are astounding now, we still know that they’re outdated and that

they’re inaccurate. Yeah. And so it’s really going to be necessary for all of us if thinking

about any of our next strategies and next approaches to really have our numbers right, or

at least have them a lot closer to what’s really happening on the ground. Because then

we’ll be able to really start to think about how we direct our resources, how we direct our

energies, we direct our funding, and how we direct our bodies, our personnel to sort of

really address these issues. And so we have that hearing, and it was the first that the New York City has ever had on this issue. And then after that, we’ve been working in

coordination to develop a taskforce that will be the first of its kind in the country that will

be responsible at looking at some of these issues that come up with respect to female

genital mutilation and cutting here in New York City. So right now we have legislation

that’s pending in city council that will create the sort of mechanisms for where the tax

which will live. And it was able to live in one of the mayor’s offices. However, we’ve gotten

slowed down because the Coronavirus Yeah. Which I’m sure that’s happening with most

folks, no matter what you’re working on right now. And so it was supposed to be ratified

by the middle of March, but that definitely hasn’t happened. So that’s where we are right

now. And if if we’re able to move forward and get that legislation ratified, we’ll have a

legal mechanism in which the city will now be responsible, sort of start to address this

issue, and start to build some manpower. There are some purchasing power there. And

some resources and the resources would look multi dimensional, just like efforts with raising awareness, because it’s an issue that impacts all of those disciplines. So we want to

have all of those people involved and they’ve been involved so far in the sort of creation of

legislation and the advocacy around it. We want to keep them involved in Developing

what the meat and potatoes of the actual legislation and the subsequent pieces of

legislation will be to sort of have it really live into fruition and have it really make sense

where the people will be here in New York City. It’s in the New York metropolitan area of

that half a million there about 65,000 women and girls that are impacted was one of the

largest in the country.

HOST 28:19

Wow. Um, in granted one of the largest cultural mixing pots as well, whenever it comes to

that, and not that we aren’t saying that it doesn’t happen here in America, but like we’re

saying it’s frequently tied to culture. So the absolute additionally,

GUEST 28:39

all kinds of cultures, you know, what I didn’t say earlier, when we were talking about, you

know, just a reframing of this issue and how to be responsible around it is that not only

accept JMC from a very old, old sort of anciently practice phenomenon, but it also was

prominent here. In the US well before, a lot of these sort of immigrant communities moved

here and sort of added to that those numbers, they were a good number of sort of

fundamentalist religious communities, particularly in the Midwest, that practice, myriad

forms FFT MC and for them, they have it also tied to religious auspices. But again, as I

mentioned before, no matter what community it is, there aren’t any sort of religious

underpinnings there’s no religious texts. of No, no, no, no, none whatsoever.

29:35

Nowhere nowhere does it say that in Old English or Hebrew

GUEST 29:41

or anything? Arabic?

HOST 29:44

Yeah, no, not a single one. I’ve read most of them. I don’t remember that. highlighted that

somewhere. So yeah, it really is something that I’m not Like we’re saying is such a cultural issue and tied to that, that it’s hard to infiltrate that community and to get that message

across. What have been some of the ways that because you’re talking about the task

force right now, what are what and I don’t want to get into like, your strategies if he can’t

give it away, things like that. But what are some of the ways that y’all are empowering

officers in this task force to be able to identify people

GUEST 30:31

in combat, because a lot of the folks who are already on the and right now our passwords

really is the beginnings of what will hopefully live into attack sores right now. We’re just a

bunch of concerned people that do this work and have been working with this with these

communities for a very long time in multiple ways. And we joined together to really think

about how to do it differently and do it smartly. But, you know, I think what we what we

what we’re committed to doing is helping the city build out a nuanced response the same

way that they’ve been able to do so with survivors of domestic violence, and the same

way that they’ve been able to do with survivors of human trafficking, and the things that

they’ve been able to do with survivors of sexual assault. Because they each involve those

are sister issues, oftentimes, and sometimes they even serve as gateways to each other

depending on the issues to each other and so that what we’ve been looking at is how to

actually create counter criminal responses. Okay, if GNC in New York, and when I when I

say counter criminal, that means right now in New York, that’s GNC and vacation cutting,

which is the practice of sending girls to their family’s home countries doing summer winter

spring break to get cut instead. which also happens here. Both of those practices are

illegal. In New York City, at least half of them just be illegal without There being other

resources available doesn’t give someone who is either being threatened with F GNC or

might be primed to experience the practice, very soon, any place helps to step into any

sort of agency or support, because the likelihood is that she will probably be raising

eyebrows on family members that are either nuclear, like directly in her home or extended. And so the possibilities if we just we think that they are that those individuals and persons

will either possibly be arrested. Depending on the immigration status, they could be

deported potentially. And depending on her age, and what other resources are available

to her family, she may end up in foster care. So that can’t be a real answer for someone

who’s looking to seek recourse and bodily autonomy. And so part of our job will be to

create counter criminal opportunities and resources that would be available to individuals

and families. families who are experiencing FGM see what that look like what that looks

like, I’m not exactly 100% sure yet, because we’ll be in the creation of it. You know, the

beauty and the heart place around doing something that’s new is that you don’t have a

blueprint. Yeah. Because it hasn’t been done in the US before. We don’t have a model. We

have our experience, we have our knowledge base of the communities that we’re working

on behalf of, we have their insight into our contributions because we talked to them and ask them and we and then we really are going to be in that collective creation of figuring

out what it’s going to look like and what it’s going to sound like. Knowing that we’ll at

least I know we’ll make some mistakes along the way. But that the goal is to really create

opportunities and options and resources and choice for individuals who are experiencing

that. So I do know that one of the major pieces will be to create counter criminal

opportunities. Another will be to Provide family interventions for families who are

experiencing f GMC. Just because a family may have a girl who is going to who’s

organizing for young woman and because they may not necessarily actually always want

their daughters to be cut. That’s right. Especially may be coming from other family

members and may be coming from elders from community elders, a lot of other places or

entities where that pressure can be coming from. And so when appropriate, and when we

can, we want to also be able to make these powerful family interventions that give

families other options that they can maybe develop alternatives to cutting, and not

necessarily have to cut their daughters. That’s a practice that worked really, really well in

some other environments and some other countries. While we’re not exactly set up the

same way, we want to think about how we can again, model some of those practices

when appropriate. So we want to think about what that would look like here as well within

our task force. Some of the other things that we’ve been looking to do is to create

psychosocial assistance and psychosocial services for families and particularly for the girl

who financing of GMC or who is experiencing it, and offer gynecological services that are

specific to those who are experiencing f GMC. And particularly in that vein, also,

rehabilitated gynecological services when appropriate, which won’t be the case, which

won’t be the case with everybody, but can be the case, but some of them and so when

necessary when appropriate. And when available, we want to be able to offer that as well. Yeah. So without going into too much details over some of the major areas that we want

to ask that we want to work on. We also want to do community awareness trainings. And

that doesn’t only mean with the community members and neighborhood vote, we’re also

talking about the major city stakeholders. So Department of Education, because those are

folks who come into contact with young people all the time, we’re talking about do H and

mo H, which is our Department of Health and Mental Health. Those are our you know,

that’s our medical body, the folks that we want to have armed with this information. So as

you mentioned, so right. So when folks who are showing up at doctors offices for make

theoretically, indirect FDC reasons they feel we’ll be able to recognize these cases and be

able to provide them with necessary resources when available. And we also are wanting

to train ACS, which is administration for children’s services because they come into

contact with these families pretty often as well. So those are some of the other three arms

in addition to our good friends, NYPD. And so those are some of the major forms that we

also want to make sure are involved in that community awareness training.

HOST 36:37

Like I did the fact that y’all have brought this onto the radar like you said, NYPD it it’s

absolutely awesome that y’all have gotten their attention on this. Cuz I know it took it

took radical empathy a while to get a little bit of traction with them and to make their

money. Understand that like this was an issue, this was something you need to look into,

and something that you need to train your officers. And like you’re saying Mental Health Officers, whenever they step into a situation of domestic violence, whenever they step

into a situation of child neglect anything like that, where this becomes a part of it, they’ve

got to know how to deal with it.

GUEST 37:25

Mm hmm. And it’s really for them as well. Because they’re already professionals, they

have a level of expertise. And what we want to do is make sure that we’re working in

collaboration with them, and that they so ever more armed and ever more responsible

and more prepared to handle these issues. So this is really about thinking about how do

we sort of use the strengths and benefits of each of the different arms of our agencies so

that we can collectively work to best serve these communities. Right? So we’re definitely

not working in a way in which we’re devices or you know, Identifying oversights or blind

spots, but in the ways in which they’ve worked in the past. But moreover, to think about, if

this hasn’t been something that’s been in your purview, up until now, now that it is you

want to make sure that you’re really well armed, and really well resourced to be able to

handle it, because the likelihood is that you’ve seen it already. But you actually weren’t

really aware that it was present for you in that way. And now that you know it, now, we

want to make sure that you’re armed and ready to deal with it next time you see it.

HOST 38:29

Yeah, it really is more about providing them additional tools in their toolkit for whenever

they’re out in the field. New new means by which to diagnose things to spot things to

open the conversation about things. Because like you’re saying they are absolutely trained

professionals. They just need to know what to look for. There’s just a different tweak and

the different tools that they need to be aware of and the fact that you guys are stepping

into communities working with local law enforcement Working with local mental health

authorities in this capacity is beautiful. And I hope that more communities really start to

raise their eyes to this situation because it’s like I said, it’s something that woefully most

people are not familiar with. I am familiar with it through the, through the years of youth

ministry work that I did, and the numerous people that we would have come to speak to

youth, or that we would see speak at youth conferences for three days, or you know,

things like that, where it’s like you, you go to a breakout room and you’re learning about some kind of social impact situation like this, or Romney and Amnesty International, that

kind of stuff. And that was my first real

GUEST 39:51

people tell me they said about an anthropology class.

HOST 39:54

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that’s just it, you know, maybe you hear about it on something like

taboo. From the from the National Geographic Channel, something that you know, along

the lines of scarification, which is practiced by numerous African cultures is rites of

passage, that kind of stuff. And that’s that’s like we were saying culturally what most

people do it under the guise of is a rite of passage, some sort of religious thing, but

nowhere in any religious text around the world or belief, is that the case? So, it’s, you know,

what, what have y’all found through your work? is some of the reasoning behind this for

people that have recovered people that have kind of, you know, I guess come out of the

cult mentality, you know,

GUEST 40:47

um, you know, it’s a, it’s a mixed bag. I am very fortunate that the folks that I work on

behalf of our son of the blazes, and most powerful people I’ve ever met. And so whenever

there’s a breakdown and ideas and strategies and policies that we’re working on, around

this issue or some of the other sister issues that we work on at globalizing gender, I’m

constantly reminded of the bravery of the clients and the women and girls and boys also

that I work on behalf of, and I get back on the court because they’ve enjoyed a heck of a

lot more than I have in respect to these issues. So, you know, one disappointment today

won’t be the death knell for for these greater causes. So, with that being said, for a lot of

the folks who I know who have experienced this practice, a good number of them are

advocates for others to have choice and agency over their own bodies. There are

definitely people who have experienced this practice who have shared with me that it was

a practice that they want it to endure an engagement. And as I would say, with anybody

else, you have complete choice and agency over your own body, I think for me, and when I say me, I’m talking about the work here at globalizing gender. I’ve it’s just to create the

opportunities that individuals have choice. And then not only do they have choice, but

they’re also Well, well informed with all of the information so that whenever they do make

a decision and making an informed one that hopefully isn’t coming from a place of duress,

or from a place of coercion. Yeah. But for the folks who I have worked with a good number

of them, are advocates for others that have choice but a good number of them have, are even more ardent and want this practice eliminated. But they also live these very vibrant

lives, where f g and z is not the totality of who they are or the totality of their experiences. And for many of them, it’s one of many things and one of many characteristics that make

them who they are. So because of that, because of their diversity in their magnet,

magnanimous personalities, I’m regularly humbled and reminded of that in all of the work

that I do on their behalf and on behalf of others daily.

HOST 43:15

Yeah, cuz I mean, you, you have to, you have to really kind of be able to, I guess step

behind their shoes, there’s no way that you can really step into their shoes, but you can

definitely walk behind their shoes and be really close in proximity to see what the wake is

what the effect is, what the family Yeah, effect is with people around them, you know,

because there’s, with anything like that there is a ripple effect with the family. Like you

were saying it may not necessarily be the case that the mother wanted this to happen to

her daughter. You know, um, and it’s something that is just carried on and carried on and

it’s, it’s literally a point of view. normalization.

44:02

You know where,

GUEST 44:03

yeah, in many communities, it’s something that’s not discussed. And it’s not talked about

even mother to daughter, or, you know, daughter to grandfather ought to ought to niece

and cousin, the cousin and sister to sister. It’s just something that happens and it’s

expected to happen. And oftentimes there’s no further communication about it

afterwards, including what happens to you physically and emotionally and psycho

socially. And so we can definitely have this ripple effect, as you said, and have long term

impact. And that’s really why our work here is to also create that family interventions and

psychosocial assistance so that the families themselves can also start to think about

building in and incorporating tools so that they can start to prepare some of those

ruptures.

HOST 44:48

Yeah, because it really is about providing people the means by which to assist themselves

and help themselves and lift themselves up. This situation and the the work that y’all are doing is literally like you were saying so vast it’s it’s gotta it’s got to almost work in your

favor with the with the shock factor whenever you approach lawmakers, things like that

because this is this is like I’m saying it’s something that most people are not aware is

happening like maybe they heard something cursorily like we were saying in the

documentary somewhere at some point, but to know that is still going on that it’s still

pervasive that it is still happening right here in America. In in not only immigrant cultures,

but local localized culture as well. It’s fine.

GUEST 45:49

I don’t know if that shock value. Initially, I think it was it was a hard voted show for people

but that’s a hard pill to swallow. Okay, it was so domestic. Wow.

HOST 45:59

All right. Cuz it could, literally Yeah, and I could definitely, I guess see that where it’s where

it’s one of those that like, no, no way.

GUEST 46:10

Like, right, yeah. You know that too. But yeah,

HOST 46:15

it, you know, in in even one of those internationally where it’s like you know it can’t be that

number. It can’t be that many. And I was recently talking with my wife about some

statistics on stuff that, you know, she was like oh that it can’t be back globally I’m like, you

know, let’s take a look at the 3.6 billion people in the world. You know, let’s start doing the

simple bar math here and start separating it out that could very likely be the number and

then we started looking it up. And it was like, yep, that’s the number Look at that. It seems

like an extraordinary

GUEST 46:52

little bit more than a million.

HOST 46:54

Yeah. And but even still, when you start doing that math, you know, You’re looking at like

a percent. And when you’re talking about 1% 1% that’s like, my god. It’s it’s just mind numbing to know that that percentage globally still exists. have something like this going

on.

GUEST 47:21

Yeah. And because this is something that’s discussing, I was doing a right before Corona,

my last presentation before the rest of them got canceled. I’m not upset anyway.

HOST 47:33

I do for a living. I’m not hating. Corona do your thing, man. Just go away quick.

GUEST 47:40

Listen, I’m here for it. I’m in the house. I’m following all the rules. I totally get it. But at one

of the last presentations is young woman. I mean, she was just curious. And she said, You

know, I don’t get it. She’s like, I don’t get why. You know, this issue is so prevalent and why

happening. And I said to her, I said, Call me you know, that room again, a nice mix of

genders and I said, How many folks in here that have a vagina walk around and talk to

people about your vagina? Yeah, yeah, precisely. No one raised their hand. Yeah. So that’s

the point. Well, and

HOST 48:16

you know it just to get into that personal realm real quick, you know, it is the fact that a

labiaplasty, things like that have have skyrocketed over the last many years over body

shaming and things like that, because women are literally sold this gender identity of

what they’re supposed to look like. And when they find out that they’re like, a little bit

different. Who cares? Who cares?

GUEST 48:47

If it wasn’t for that pressure, unfortunately, we will have some of the science that we need

to actually help folks who actually experienced FGM care might be candidates for

rehabilitative surgeries. Yes, sir. Besides But because of that pressure and actually because

of the trans community, there’s been a lot of work done and a lot of science that’s been

made available over the past like 15 years that wasn’t there before. Well, there’s a whole

generation of women and girls now who might have options to live a very different life

and then their mothers or grandmothers ever could have imagined

HOST 49:18

fruitful, productive life sexually. And you know, enjoyably things like that. That’s just it. It’s

it, you know, it really is about this is this is one of those situations where you were talking

about the whole patient, not just the symptom, you’re really trying to treat the whole

patient and restore a person to a sense of identity. And let’s let’s do we’ve got about 10

minutes left, let’s spend the last few minutes talking about some because you know, this is

a heavy topic. It’s a heavy topic. I want to have you on again, because it is definitely one

like I said that I want to bring more light to but he In the last few minutes, let’s talk about

a few of the rays of hope. Like what you’re talking about the surgical procedures, the new

science things if if, if there are women out there, if there are family members of women out

there that have been stricken with this that have been hit with this, what can they do? What are their options that are out there right now to seek help to seek healing? Yeah,

into so

GUEST 50:27

there are a small team of amazing kind of colleges. And I really do mean small, there’s

about 10 of them around the country, that working on these issues, specifically around

female genital mutilation and cutting. And they are an amazing team of people that look

at these issues on a daily basis and have always thinking about how to make things a little

bit different and a little bit better for folks who are experiencing this through science. And

so depending on where those folks are, in the listening in the listening audience, we Up to,

if necessary, put those folks in touch with them so that they can start to at least be in

conversation around creating options and opportunities, or at minimum, at least know

what those options and opportunities might be. Yeah. And then what respect to, you

know, the whole self that you mentioned, you know, I strongly encourage folks to start to

seek psychosocial services if they aren’t already having them. You know, September to December of last year, myself and two other organizations but a small pilot in Harlem and

providing gynecological and psychosocial services to women and girls in the northern Manhattan and northern Bronx area, who were experiencing f GMC. And one of those

opportunities we were able to create a weekly quick work where they got together once a

weekend just to share and talk to each other. I know that they would not just the only lone

person and Lone Survivor in a room and you know, in a bathroom filled with other people

where they got To feel where they didn’t have to feel different anymore. And so I strongly

encourage folks, if they aren’t already engaged in some sort of psychosocial support, or

some sort of wellness initiative to, to please think about how to step into them. I

mentioned that also the yoga teacher and part of the reason why I teach yoga, it’s

because I’ve been very curious about how the body releases trauma. And I say that, and I’m sort of also laughing at myself, hypocritically, because I right now have not a pinched

nerve, but a really tight muscle that’s been making me cry the past two days in my shoulder. And so I’m very curious about how to release that as well, but how to sort of

release trauma from the body. And in thinking about female genital mutilation and

cutting and other forms of gender based violence, that trauma often lives on and our

bodies and can just start to add and gather and have such profound weight. Yeah, and so I’ve been the teenage yoga as a tool. Again, add to that toolkit that we’ve been talking

about, sort of think about how to decouple one’s body from, from that trauma that they

may have experienced. And so I’ve been teaching yoga, shortening the city at domestic

violence shelters. And in my own community just for free, and just to give people another

option to step into to think about how they can actually be in control of how this sort of

decoupled themselves from whatever trauma may they may have experienced. So there’s

a and then also just think about, you know, what does it mean to have a powerful

conversation with people and just ask people how they’re doing what they’re dealing with. And the likelihood is that we all know someone or someone that have experienced either

this issue of one or the other ones, the other similar sister issues that we’ve been talking

about this evening. And so oftentimes, when so it’s not that they’re not alone, and they’re

not going to be judged, and be prejudiced. They’re much more willing to step into sharing

and letting you know what they’re up to. And if we could all just be that person for

someone else that makes a huge difference and as we were talking when I quit before we

got on the air maybe that’s something that people see more available to them now in the

in the in the space of Corona they didn’t see that before. But that opportunity to just be

neighborly and be present with the people around you and not to ignore them. I and if

you can do that for someone you might be able to make a powerful difference and

powerful intervention for someone.

HOST 54:29

I do not have my applause button ready. And it makes me sad because I have been

saying that for the last three episodes is my god if Coronavirus teaches us anything

people. Let’s Let’s hope that it brings us back to a point of empathy. Let’s Let’s hope that

it brings us back to a point where we actively care about the person across the fence from

1. You know, I would Challenge most people right now even if you live in an apartment,

look at your hands. And and try to name that many neighbors just on one hand just look

at your right hand. See if you can name five neighbors. Like these are the people that are

supposed to care if there’s an emergency Yeah, you know exactly look at how long it took. It’s like trying to remember a phone number nowadays. Good luck. Our brains used to be

computers you know, like I ate it like 28 numbers memorized back in the day now it’s like I

don’t know hold on what’s my mom’s phone number I get my own like It’s horrifying thank God I know my wife’s because man if I was ever arrested you know but when but it’s

literally the case of we we have lost so much empathy for each other societal Lee and and

how our lives impact you each other, and how to have that that true common heart of care. Just for somebody as a human being, you don’t have to know them. You don’t have

to know them to listen. You know?

GUEST 56:15

Yeah, Mike. And that’s it. That’s the piece there. Like, you don’t have to be an immigrant to

care about this. You don’t have to be a woman or girl. You just have to be a human that

invested in the fact that people get to have freedom over their bodies. Yeah. Yeah, that’s

the place to start with all of this.

HOST 56:33

Precisely. Precisely. Well, Natasha, thank you so much for taking the time. In the last

minute here, please do let everybody know where they can go to find out more about FGM. See, where they can get involved, what they can do and what to do about donating

to globalizing gender to becoming part of this movement.

GUEST 56:58

Yeah, we need to I’m assuming you’re already an ambassador because I’ve talked to you

for an hour. So you’re hired, but we want everybody to be an ambassador as well. So you

can reach us at www dot urbanizing gender.org. That’s all one word, www dot globalizing

ginter.org. And the answer to all of your questions will be there.

HOST 57:21

Fantastic. That is so great. Thank you so much for taking the time like I said, we I love the

fact that number one one of my wife’s family members was shocked by something that I

was talking about tonight was literally taken aback like, Whoa, like she’s known me for

more than a decade. Are you really surprised by now at any conversation I am willing to

have in the world. So it was one of those like, Good, I’m glad somebody is shocked by this.

People should be shocked

GUEST 57:54

that you keep occurring to her as new. It’s like

HOST 58:01

You know, we we’ve we’ve got to bring issues like this to light folks, we’ve got to walk through the world with open eyes and open hearts. We can no longer have a society that

is removed from each other that is removed from knowing our impact on one another and

what we can do for each other by literally just being there to listen. So, once again, ladies

and gentlemen, the amazing Tasha r Johnson with globalizing gender. Thank you so much

for taking the time this evening. Please do hold the line while we close things out Natasha. While you are online, checking out globalizing gender. Make sure to stop by the dudes

and beer podcast that is where you can find all the episodes. That’s where you can find all

of the causes that we care about like globalizing gender, like righteous causes, Inc, like

good council link, you know, like the wall of jail Carpenter reef Everything else while you’re

on the dudes and beer site, make sure to check out our new videos page. It’s got all the

awesome YouTube channels from our guests like gray Scott, the futurist transhumanist and

presidential candidate. Zoltan Istvan five by five news, self talk, all that great stuff, Graham Phillips. Until next time, everybody take care of yourselves take care of each

other. And if you can’t be good, be good at things. We’re listening

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